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Kim Murstein: The other thing I've taught you is how to post an Instagram story.
Kim Murstein: So much social media lingo.
Gail Rudnick: So many things that I needed to know.
Kim Murstein: The important things in life.
Kim Murstein: And together we created "Excuse My Grandma," which is a social media brand and podcast that we co-host together about our lives, our relationship, and all the generational differences of life, dating, culture, fashion and family.
Kim Murstein: OK Grandma, what is your definition of the American Dream?
Gail Rudnick: Well, the American Dream to me represents equal opportunity for education, that everybody has an equal chance to get better at whatever they want in life through what they learn as a child in school.
Welcome to The Next Dream, a CNBC Make It series exploring how the modern-day pursuits of success and happiness are reshaping our lives 250 years after America's first dream was born.
Kim Murstein: I also feel like there's that more traditional definition of: If you work hard, then you will succeed and you will excel and you will be fiscally in a good place. And I do think maybe over time that's changed a little bit, at least to me and my generation. I feel like there's so much more opportunity now.
Gail Rudnick: Do you feel that you've achieved the American Dream? If not yet, does it feel realistic that you can or will?
Kim Murstein: I do feel like I'm already living the American Dream. I was living a more traditional path where I went to school, I went to college, I was working a more traditional media job. But then being able to start "Excuse My Grandma" with you and really create opportunity where I could do something that I wanted to do and that I was passionate about — I feel like that's the American dream.
Gail Rudnick: Correct. Well, I'm certainly living the American Dream. I thought I was living it before, because I had a wonderful family and children that I adored. And I think what happened is: At the age of 79, I went to work. That gives hope to everybody who, at any stage in their life, wants to really start doing something different. They should do it.
Kim Murstein: I also think what people value now has changed a little bit, and the opportunities have changed a little bit. So when it comes to women in particular, 50 years ago, you didn't really have the opportunity to fully live that American Dream. I hear these stories from you all the time. Or —
Gail Rudnick: There were different dreams.
Kim Murstein: Exactly. I'm sure if you had a time machine back in the day and you looked at me at 30 years old, not married, but living with my boyfriend, [having] started my own company, all of these things, you would be like, "What are you talking about?"
Kim Murstein: But because of the ideals that have changed today, the opportunities, the flexibility — I think we are in a time where we can really pursue what interests us.
Gail Rudnick: What's one stereotype about your age group that you wish people would stop believing?
Kim Murstein: They're just on their phone all the time and they don't care, and that they're selfish as well. I think, yes, we consume technology and social media and all these things, but I think the laziness and all of those things that are associated with that is not the case for most people.
Kim Murstein: What's one stereotype about your age group that you wish people would stop believing?
Gail Rudnick: I would hope they stop believing that older people can't be beneficial to society and give back to society, because that's a bunch of hogwash. And I think no matter where you are in your life, you can always help somebody and give somebody a hand, reach out to them. And I think as an older person who's already established themselves and [is] either in retirement or thinking about retiring, there's a whole world out there of options that you can do. Young people really want to hear from the older generation, not that they're going to do the same thing that they're going to do, or live the same life that they chose, but at least get their experience and see how it applies to them.
Kim Murstein: Totally agree. We talk about this on "Excuse My Grandma" all the time: Young people want to hear from the older generations, not only because of the wisdom, but also often [when] you're scrolling on social media, it's so much of our contemporaries with not much wisdom behind them trying to give each other advice.
Gail Rudnick: How has your personal definition of success, whether in your career or in your life, changed since you first started out?
Kim Murstein: I think as you grow up, you hear, "OK, you should have one job for a really long time," or "you should get married, settle down and start a family at a certain age" — that I now am, 30 — and you hear all of these things. But I think as I have had experiences, I've realized that I've found success in these other ways, such as starting "Excuse My Grandma" and having an opportunity to spend time with you and with my family and having other people relate to that.
Gail Rudnick: Prior to our starting "Excuse My Grandma," my success would have been to raise a family and have them be productive citizens. Now I realize there's also an additional layer that I can give back to my community [on] many different levels.
Kim Murstein: What's your message to Americans who feel disillusioned by the state of the American Dream today?
Gail Rudnick: They should go back and look about what the American Dream was all about. Nothing was supposed to be given to anybody with the American Dream. It was the opportunity. I think they have to rethink where they want to be in society [and] perhaps be less hard on themselves and expect perfection, because nothing is perfection. Everything is a work in progress. And we've understood this for 250 years that everything sort of goes in stages. There are some times that are dark stages, sometimes there are light stages. But never give up.
Gail Rudnick: How do you think millennials, Gen Z and younger people are redefining what the American Dream looks like?
Kim Murstein: I think my generation, the younger generations, they all feel like there's this opportunity now to do what you love and be able to pursue that and become successful in that. And they don't necessarily have to follow those traditional paths. I think the young people today perhaps don't feel like they have to check those boxes that the generations before them did. You don't have to do what your father and great-grandfather did. You can really pursue your own dream. And I think that's really exciting because there's just so much opportunity every day.
Kim Murstein: Many Americans are waiting longer to hit traditional milestones like getting married, having kids, or buying a home. What advice do you have for people who feel like they're behind in life?
Gail Rudnick: First of all, I don't think every single family has to have a house. I don't think they need to own their own house. They can rent a house. That was a dream that we had in the '50s and '60s that everybody had to have a house. Now it's very costly. And to go to school and to go to universities, even community colleges are more [expensive] than they were. So it has to go in order of what they really value. I think first, get an education. First, find something that you're good at and do it. But I don't think you should push off having a family. I don't believe that people should wait till they are 30 and 40 to to make a commitment to another person.
Gail Rudnick: It doesn't all have to be perfect. I also don't think they should stop having children. So many young families now, because it is expensive, only have one child. I think there's a happy medium. I don't think you should get married at 18 [or] 19. That's silly. You have to develop your skills and your knowledge and your job skills. But when you know, [you're] ready, and don't put it off. I just want people to enjoy each other and have lives together as families, because that's still the greatest benefit that you will ever have in life.
Kim Murstein: And actually, as you're saying that, I'm thinking when young people today are thinking about the American Dream, I don't think they just want to own one house. They want a second home, and they want not just to be the CEO of their company, but also a mom of three kids.
Gail Rudnick: That's a little — it's not realistic, unless you're a super person. It's almost impossible. There are some people who will have it, and that's wonderful. But it's not the norm. The norm is have a career, whatever career you're seeking out, wherever it brings you, and also bring along a family that you can enjoy and have time to go in the park and smell the trees and the flowers and have some kind of love of the land that is so wonderful. You don't want to sit inside of an office just developing portfolios. You really want to have an experience of togetherness. Very often that's really where your true life happiness really is. And when you get older, you really realize that because all of a sudden you're living through your grandchildren, or you're living through a niece or a nephew or someone that you love, and you see that's what brings joy — not how much they bring to the table as far as the monetary gain.
Gail Rudnick: Younger women today have a lot more access to different opportunities in their careers, finances and life than when I was your age. That can also come with new pressures. What's your perspective on women being able to have it all today?
Kim Murstein: I think women can have it all. I know grandma's going to roll her eyes at that comment.
Kim Murstein: But I think you just figure out within yourself. It's harder than for most people, but figure out what to prioritize when. Figure out what truly makes you happy and what truly fulfills you. And that's going to be the thing to focus most of your time on. And that could change at different points of your life.
Kim Murstein: Our followers and I have learned a lot of life lessons from you over the years, but I'm curious to know what have you learned from me or younger generations that's changed your perspective on an important issue?
Gail Rudnick: I've learned so much in the last five years from you and from all the young men and women who we've spoken to, and we've spoken to an awful lot. I think what's happened is, I've changed my idea of what relationships should be in 2026. When I was young, within three [or] four months — or even less — you got engaged, you got married, you had children. It was what was expected of you. Now there's no longer that expectation for most people. It's good in the sense that you have a chance to go into the workforce and do creative and wonderful things, or be a lawyer or a doctor or whatever desire you have, spend years studying — and still have a family. I think a lot of what I see of the young people, I think it's so terrific because they're doing such innovative things in their careers, which we weren't really given an opportunity to do, especially the women and also the men. The men had to follow a pattern. They knew they were the major breadwinner. So they kept their goals and their aspirations limited to what would be most productive to make their family whole and be able to have their meals and take care of their needs. But I think that's different now. And it's mostly families are [two-income families], which is good and bad. I mean, it could be either way. But it's certainly better for the children. They see their parents much more than we saw ours because it was more of a patriarchal society when I was growing up. You saw your father when he came home from work and maybe for a half hour. Now it's a whole different world out there. And I think that's good. I think it's for the better. I think all the things that young people are doing are usually for the best, except they're a little afraid of commitment. They're scared of failure. And that happens in every generation. Nothing is is absolutely certain. And I just tell all the people that I meet, "Don't worry about it. You fail, you pick yourself up again, and you do it again. It doesn't matter."
Kim Murstein: We might be scared of commitment. I've seen that obviously, especially when I was dating for years. But also, we have the luxury to be super intentional and feel like, "OK, the first guy we're introduced to doesn't have to be the one that we marry." And there's kind of more optionality and less stress on it in a way. I also think it's like you have the luxury of not [having] to commit right away as well. The other thing I've taught you is how to post an Instagram story.
Gail Rudnick: We don't agree on everything, Kim, but we still prioritize our relationship. What advice do you have for other young people about staying connected with family members, even when you have differing opinions?
Kim Murstein: It's so important to foster those relationships with your older family members, your grandparents. Know what's going on in each other's lives. And then I would say, ask questions. If you don't know what to say, or you're like, "What did you do this week?" and all they say is, "Play cards," I think not being afraid to ask those questions about, "Hey, when you were young, what was your favorite thing to do?" And you can listen to our podcast, we give examples all the time on ways to do this. But I think not being afraid to break down that wall, because it's another human being. You forget at the end of the day, it's not just this scary older figure. This is a person. Your mom's a girl, too.
Kim Murstein: That loves you and wants to connect back.
Gail Rudnick: Listen, I think every older American has to get on the phones or on their iPads or whatever their electronics are, and they have to ask their grandchildren or their nieces or nephews, "What happened today? What happened this weekend that was special?"
Kim Murstein: I thought you were going to say, "Ask them how to turn it on."
Gail Rudnick: No, that now we've taught each other how to do. But find out if there's something happening in their relationships. Maybe you can give some advice, even if it's not great advice, it's still advice that they might want to hear. Find out if they're cooking a new recipe and you might want to share it. It's all about sharing ideas and becoming part of each other's lives, not entities that are just walking through life by themselves. If you don't have a family, go into your local community areas that have all kinds of outreach programs and give your time. There's so much out there for you to contribute to and learn from.
Kim Murstein: I think bridging the generational gap is a huge part of it.
Kim Murstein: And being able to listen to another perspective and value each other, because we all are part of the same community at the end of the day.
Gail Rudnick: And don't shout people down because you don't agree with their opinion. You have to listen. That's really what I think is happening now in many areas. [People are] not listening to the other side. Both sides have [points of view]. And you know what? There are two [points of view] and there's probably a third that's the actual point of view that you listen to.
Kim Murstein: Young people are facing what some experts call a loneliness epidemic. What do you think is the key to making sure people stay connected with one another in today's society?
Gail Rudnick: I don't think anybody should be lonely today. I think neighbors have to reach out to neighbors. Family members have to reach out to somebody that they don't often see but they know is alone. There is a tremendous amount of isolation due to technology. No question is too small. No gesture is too small. Every kindness that you give to somebody else will come back many times over in something good happening. So I really think that's [a] very important lesson that we've learned. We love all the people out there that ask us questions about our relationship. It's so funny. They ask us how we do it, and we do it because we love each other. And we don't always necessarily have to agree on any of these questions. But mostly now we do agree on a lot of them.
Gail Rudnick: We're wearing the same colors.
Gail Rudnick: It's really getting scary. But actually it's fun. And I think what people have to do is [realize] there's no age difference. Friends and family have to just connect and love each other no matter what the age is. And don't be afraid to reach your hand out to somebody else.
Gail Rudnick: I think we've covered it. I don't know, you're the boss.
This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.